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Grappling and Dirty Fighting

posted by Zahra

Zahra
Posts: 152
Grappling and Dirty Fighting 1 of 8
Jan. 30, 2024, 12:41 p.m.

After having watched a couple of friendly brawling sorts of scenes now (and having tested out some forms of aggression while still in the Faded Zone), I wanted to slide in with some more suggestions, though this time geared toward grappling and then something I'm just going to call dirty fighting though I think desperate fighting would also be accurate.

Credit where credit is due. Some of these suggestions come from my husband who wrestles and does No-Gi Jiu Jitsu competively.

  • Throw. Maybe once you have someone successfully grappled, you can try to pick them up and throw them? Like a shove to make distance, but more aggressive and could knock them down.
  • Pin. If you successfully tackle them to the ground, you can then try to pin them there.
  • Knockdown/Trip. Since 'sweep' is already a command to sweep someone off their feet (and into your arms), I couldn't think of a good name for this... but essentially a way to try to sweep someone's feet out from under them and knock them down without you tackling them to the ground.
  • Lockdown. My husband didn't have a good word for this, but sort of an extension of initially grappling someone, where instead of just holding them with one hand, you grab them with two hands and try to "lock" them in place (you'd have to successfully grapple them first, though). This would be harder to struggle away from, but also more tiring for the one holding them. You would also have both hands engaged so you couldn't use your hands for anything else while you're holding them like this.
  • Kick. Like shove, but more insulting, if they're lying on the ground and you're standing up. A way to make distance between you and them as you kick their prone form away from you.

Now for my dirty fighting thoughts. As someone who tested out being choked/manhandled in the Faded Zone, it feels like an instant death sentence if you're not playing a stronk character and a stronk character grabs you by the throat. You can't struggle away. You can't shove them off you. You're dead. Unless you have no scruples and don't mind fighting a little dirty!

  • Kick to the Groin. Self-explanatory. Probably 'groinkick' as a command would be less unwieldy.
  • Bite. Literally try to bite the other person, not a social.
  • Scratch. Also self-explanatory. Put those well-groomed fingernails to work.
  • Jab. This one comes from my husband. I was like, "Oh like an elbow jab to the ribs?" Him: "No, like fingers to the eyes. That'll abbreviate a fight pretty quickly, I'll tell you that." (I also like the idea of elbow jabs, though).
Jan. 30, 2024, 12:41 p.m.
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Rostam
Posts: 77
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 2 of 8
Jan. 30, 2024, 1:14 p.m.

I love this idea! I was actually thinking last night that I'd love to expand the unarmed combat repertoire. For context, I was a low-level Muay Thai fighter for some time, and while I don't have your husband's grappling experience, I do have a pretty good understanding of the stand-up game.

 

  • Jab: I suggest maybe eyepoke? That'd be a really good one. I suggest rephrasing it because jabs could also be considered a light punch, usually thrown off the lead hand.
  • Elbow: This could be a strike done when grappling with other opponents. In Muay Thai, we throw elbows from the clinch, and they can be devastating when landed properly.
  • Knee: Similarly, strikes thrown from the clinch.
  • Lockdown: You referenced this, and just as a cleaner title for it, I wonder if 'clinch' would work? This could give an advantage to movements like trip, as well?
Jan. 30, 2024, 1:14 p.m.
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Zahra
Posts: 152
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 3 of 8
Jan. 30, 2024, 1:39 p.m.

I think 'clinch' definitely feels less unwieldy than 'lockdown' laugh And elbows and knees are a great idea, too!

Some other dirty fighting thoughts:

  • Slap. Is this already a thing?
  • Backhand. I'm pretty sure this isn't already a thing, but... but... it could be, one day!

I need a puppy dog eyes smiley. Or like a Puss in Boots eyes smiley.

I was thinking dirty fighting techniques would probably rely on more grace or finesse as opposed to just brute strength, to give non-combatants a way to have some teeth (hur hur). I probably should have added that to my first post, but I'm still slurping on coffee, so my brain is only at 50% at the moment.

Jan. 30, 2024, 1:39 p.m.
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pilgrim
Posts: 217
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 4 of 8
Jan. 30, 2024, 2:48 p.m.

As a practitioner of isshinryu (we've got all types here!) I really appreciate the ideas and have some more thoughts on elbows and knees, regarding their better efficacy at immediate range than moves like kicks. It's definitely going to be a while before coding these things becomes more of a priority, but I'm excited about them, so keep the ideas and discussion coming! laugh

One thing is that we want to try to keep combat and non-combat as integrated as possible. So there are already CLAW and BITE moves, but the problem is that they're only available in animal attacks and currently the combat code splits substantially for how to handle animal attacks and human attacks. So this is something that has been in need of a revamp for a while now, but will be a pretty big project to overhaul. It's already on my list and I'd love to add claw and bite in for human functionality as well.

Kicking already exists -- you can kick someone in the groin already with KICK <target> IN THE GROIN. (This does initiate combat though.) THROWing grappled people exists, but I wouldn't recommend trying it because I found a bug in it myself the other day (it'll give you a prohibitive, unbalanced amount of crush damage). 

I like the idea of clinch and eyepoke, but I think these would end up more specialized moves (like headbutt is). Right now there are fight clubs essentially where PCs can brawl NPCs in order to work their way up in the rankings, and Mistsparrow had this cool idea a while back that you'd be able to learn moves based on different cultural martial arts from participating in different fight clubs. Unfortunately there's no fight club on the ship, but maybe one could be established. It feels a bit weird to gate moves like eyepoke and headbutt, though, so I'm not sure about that long-term.

SLAP and BACKHAND are great ideas too. I think those might end up as slight-damage-causing contact socials..

There are some other "dirty fighting" type moves you could check out in HELP DISTRACT.

Jan. 30, 2024, 2:48 p.m.
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Zahra
Posts: 152
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 5 of 8
Jan. 30, 2024, 3:03 p.m.

Kicking already exists -- you can kick someone in the groin already with KICK <target> IN THE GROIN. (This does initiate combat though.)

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I'm mobile and on the struggle bus at the moment, but I just wanted to say this is good to know! But I was hoping for more ways for non-combatants to maybe break out of a choke or grapple with my suggestions for dirty fighting things. Would this serve that purpose in its current state? I'm just curious given that I don't really want to live test this laugh (Or do I?)

Jan. 30, 2024, 3:03 p.m.
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Zahra
Posts: 152
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 6 of 8
Jan. 30, 2024, 3:32 p.m.

Because this made me laugh!

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(GameHelp): A shadowy vagrant relays, "Trying to fix it so if you kick someone in the groin they'll stop choking you hahah."

(GameHelp): You relay, "The first thing I logged into xD."

(GameHelp): A shadowy vagrant relays, "Lol perfect."

Jan. 30, 2024, 3:32 p.m.
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Zaylhem
Posts: 2
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 7 of 8
Feb. 1, 2024, 7:01 p.m.

I used to wrassle and do Jiujitsu, mostly No Gi, too!

In my experience, clinch is more of a standing grappling that leads into other things! Muay Thai clinches, Greco Roman clinches, that kind of stuff. Probably nitpicky but lol. Maybe restrain is it's more of a general lockdown, don't let them move kinda thing. Or lockdown could work haha. As for the sweep you're going for, maybe just footsweep in one word? 

Gouge could be a could dirty fighting command too, little more versatile than eyepoke and could be aimed at a few different places.

Feb. 1, 2024, 7:01 p.m.
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Zahra
Posts: 152
Re: Grappling and Dirty Fighting 8 of 8
Feb. 1, 2024, 8:05 p.m.

Gouge is such a great word. +1 to gouge.

Feb. 1, 2024, 8:05 p.m.
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